From Clacton with Hate

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Mike Small asks Who are the narrow nationalists now? Remind us who the Death-Eaters are? Where is the denouncement of bigotry and prejudice? The noise from Scotland’s ‘silent majority’ is deafening.

A few more doors knocked and UKIP might have taken Heywood and Middleton instead of Labour. Ed Miliband would have been out of a job, or at least teetering near the exit, a lame duck opposition leader with little to say, even when he remembers to say it. With a majority cut from 6,000 to 617 Labour are a General Election disaster-in-waiting.

There is absolutely no pleasure in the cold realisation that everything the Left Yes said about the choices ahead have been proved right. We were ridiculed for saying that a No vote would open us to the threat of a UKIP breakthrough, not just asserting real influence over the wider Westminster parties but real actual electoral victories.

There is no pleasure in reflecting that the pathetic 36.02% turnout at the by-election points to a dead politics of disillusionment in a country (England) in which blame bigotry and xenophobia are thriving in the vacuum of ideas.

There is no joy in it becoming abundantly clear that Labour, even if they did have a clear and coherent progressive message, are in no fit state to govern Britain, to ‘protect Scotland’, to stand up to the Tories, to defend the vulnerable, or to to do any of the things that so called ‘Left No’ voters based their one dimensional ahistoric hopes on. The folk memory of Labour has been dying for years. Surely failure in the year ahead will extinguish it and a radical politics can be rediscovered for the English left?

Labour has exhausted its political capital and UKIP will now take seats and votes from both Red and Blue Tories everywhere. This isn’t just White Van Man. While the UKIP have been characterised as ‘the BNP in suits’ that’s too crude. As Eric Kauffman puts it on the LSE blog (The lessons of Clacton and Heywood: Why UKIP will damage the Tories in 2015 but may ultimately harm Labour):

“In Clacton, Douglas Carswell, a high-profile defector from the Tories, carried the seat easily, winning 60% of the vote in a constituency UKIP did not contest in 2010. Popular in Clacton, Carswell carried wide support across a range of social and voter groups. In Heywood and Middleton, UKIP candidate John Bickley won 39%, increasing UKIP’s share by a whopping 36 points over 2010. It was an impressive UKIP tally, but the seat was held by Labour, winning 41% of the poll. Here we have two strong UKIP performances, resulting in a Tory loss in one instance, and a Labour win, albeit narrow, in the other.”

Newsweek European issue Nigel Farage cover 17 October 2014Westminster is knee-deep in the politics of blame. It’s a festival of reaction. Just after we were told by George Osborne, MP for Tatton, heir apparent to the Osborne baronetcy and alumni of Magdalen College, Oxford that the real problem with Britain today was the “anti-business” views of charities and trade unions, now Nigel Farage has joined the chorus extending his message of hate to include people suffering from HIV.

In an interview with Newsweek Europe he was asked what sort of people should be allowed to migrate to Britain, he said: “People who do not have HIV, to be frank. That’s a good start.”

Bringing homophobia onto the stage with the current mix of racism is no surprise.  This is the politics of hate, an extension of the politics of fear.

This is an extension of the established platform beyond the racist underbelly to a new Mittel Ingerlund. Faragism and Toryism sit side by side outdoing each other in a vile tabloid bigotry, while Labour stand to the side, an inert useless mute.

Bristling wit confidence Farage went on to say he would like to negotiate Britain’s withdrawal from the EU as Europe minister.

He said: “If things go well next spring, I would like to be minister for Europe. I mean that quite seriously.” And why not?

The threat of a UKIP-focused Westminster was continually ridiculed in the referendum campaign as ‘scaremongering’ and ‘fanciful’. It’s now coming to pass before our very eyes.

We said again and again that a No vote would embolden the radical right and the forces of reaction. We need a renewed radical indy Left movement to combat the tide of nationalism that’s coming our way.

 

 

 



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62 replies

  1. And so it begins in earnest!

  2. I’m a first time poster.

    What does this mean for Scotland and the spring election; is the position to back SNP wholesale even though FPTP will protect many same old faces? Also is Labour defeat in the GE considered to advantage of the self determination movement, even thought the short term consequences will most likely be very difficult for genuinely bleeding heart lefties like me? I’m feeling very torn on what the right thing to do is in the spring election.

    • We must support Yes Alliance parties in 2015 and 2016. Labour aren’t going to win the GE. Even if they were, could you credibly support them? Particulary from the Scottish perspective.

    • I think under FPTP, the only logical option for now is to aim for a large number of SNP MP’s to hopefully provide the balance of power, protect Scotland, and influence how much devolution we get.

      Labour has the weakest proposals of anyone for more Scottish powers.

      They will try to buy votes with a minimum wage proposal, but I think so many of their traditional supporters here are sickened by them.
      Hand-in-hand with the Tories to keep Scotland under London rule.
      These memories won’t be easily forgotten.

      Their hypocrisy over the last few days just summed them up.
      Calls to nationalise Scotrail, when they know Holyrood doesn’t have that power.
      Just how they wanted it.

    • The RIGHT THING is to vote ANYONE BUT LABOUR. And if there is wholesale backing for SNP even many ‘same old faces’ will be out on their arses.

      • Thanks James, that’s more or less where I’ve arrived at that Labour will be best served by people starving them of votes until such times as they speak for the very interests they were founded for. I’m not quite there with ‘anyone but Labour’ a marginal Tory/Lab seat circumstance will force reasonable people to act a certain way.

  3. Very fine piece Mike. You write so well. The distinction between the civic nationalism of the SNP and the ethnic racist English nationalism of UKIP, which is often tinctured with and driven with hate of various strands – anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant and so on – needs to be spelled out clearly. So many of us who were Yes activists were tarred and feathered with the ‘Nasty Nats’, or ‘Narrow minded Nationalists’ brush during the referendum. Most who went to the BBC protest rally were probably not even Nationalists at all. Celebrating civic nationalism or simply pride in one’s country,esp our open democratic multi-ethnic celebration of Scotland with some flag waving convoys was carnival like: it was not ethnic nationalism! Most people I know in the SNP are not narrow minded nationalists! Most are internationalists. People should read the McCrone reports closely and they will see that it was his advice that the British establishment were advised to use their establishment newspapers and media to tar and feather the SNP as narrow minded selfish nationalists. The commonplace media prejudice against so-called Nasty Narrow minded Nats originates in Westminster government policy. UKIP will grow and take votes from both Tory and Labour due to ethnic xenophobia in the English press. It is churned out daily. The Great British Empire during economic depression is an unhealthy intolerant and racist society with plenty of prejudice about the ‘pesky Scots’ who are all subsidy Junkies – despite the economic reality that it is England who has taken all of Scotland North Sea Revenues and squandered that bonanza on London and its surrounds.

    • Excellent observations, Patrick. The power of the media is incalculable. I have witnessed people who are usually extremely discerning being taken in by the ‘narrow minded nationalist’ spiel which has been fed to them by newspapers that I would, at one time, have expected to know better. It’s very worrying (and both infuriating and sad, on a personal level). If it’s not misrepresentation, smears and defamation of character that the unscrupulous msm are engaging in, it’s downright ignoring of events and news which show elements of the entire Yes movement in a favourable light. The consequences of this are that it puts the Yes movement in a very vulnerable position – as we found out to our cost on 18 September. The only way we can gain any credibility among those who fell for the establishment line, and voted No, is for the many excellent providers of information (such as Bella Caledonia) to become mainstream themselves. If that hurdle can be overcome, we’ll be home and dry.

    • The real fault in Mike’s logic is that we would have escaped the UKIP threat if we had left the Union. Reality is that we need to stay in the Union to oppose the UKIP threat since the threat to Scotland would be much greater if we were not in the Union.

      If you think the UKIP threat is that we are dragged out of the EU – then I ask you – what exactly is the threat – is it the obstacles to trade that would result? What other downsides do you see with leaving the EU?

      Now – by comparison – if obstacles to trade (for the 15% of our trade that is done with rEU) is our concern then surely the prospect of Scotland being in the EU while rUK (who we do 70% of our trade with) is out of the EU is a Five times greater threat. I therefore completely fail to see any logic to the argument that we need to ditch rUK to escape separation from our market.

      Maybe you have other concerns about leaving the EU – like not being at the table where decisions about our laws are made – well my argument applies here too – we need to be at the table where UK laws are made since they would continue to affect us even if we were not in the UK.

      • The downsides I see to leaving the EU are manifold, but the aspect that I find currently most relevant is that the EU can put some restrictions on the UK government’s proto-fascist (yes, they are) machinations. Take for example the Justice and Security 2013 Act which allows the establishment of secret courts and means that any UK citizen can be convicted without knowing what the charges are, without being allowed into court, without seeing the evidence, without being represented by a lawyer and without hearing a reason for the verdict. Now, if that happened to me, the first thing I would do is to appeal at Strasbourg, because such a Kafkaesque thing is surely a breach of the European Convention of Human Rights. But now Cameron plans to scrap the Human Rights Act which obliges the UK to abide by the ECHR. Cameron has already said he wouldn’t mind if the UK left the EU. Of course he wouldn’t mind, he’d LOVE it.

    • Well said Patrick. I had a depressing conversation with my brother this morning. We haven’t met for over a month, at which time I presented him with a number of print outs to balance the media barrage he was enthralled to. I doubt he read a single page.

      “Salmond lost the vote because he didn’t answer any questions” was his opening line before going on to repeat, almost verbatim, every Reporting Scotland headline, pre-referendum.

      He is entitled to his views and NO decision, but I would be happier if it had been a fully formed decision. He views the YES campaign as propagandist in nature, not to be trusted. Yet he laps up BBC and newspaper articles as if they were mother’s milk.

      It was hard to listen to him complain about Cameron and Milliband, and the state of “the country”. He is an intelligent, hard working individual who has never had a long term, secure position his entire working life. A product of Thatcher’s years, along with his wife, another highly capable individual now working in a benefit’s office after years of low wage, low skill jobs. They have young children, and make no bones about voting NO to protect what they have.

      Especially since his wife received a circular at work warning of her future prospects should Scotland vote YES, while his own boss, who runs a small delivery service to local communities, threatened to up sticks and move to England if YES prevailed. I suppressed my anger when my brother informed me his employer is now the proud owner of of large property, which is a long term investment.

      A couple I know in the Netherlands are their exact equivalent, with a life style he can only dream of. They are part of a society which offers them a diverse, high skill, high wage, job market with promotional opportunities denied my brother his entire life.

      So there we have it for so many people in Scotland. Give them little. Tell them they are lucky to have it. If they show any signs of a desire for change, threaten to take what little they have from them, and batter the message home with a complicit media.

      My brother’s story isn’t unique. I know a number of people who faced the same quandary in September. The sad fact is our media let them believe a NO vote was a safe option. As I said at the beginning, depressing.

      • But Salmond didn’t answer any questions – why do you keep ignoring that concern?
        He did not answer the questions on the BBC, or ITV, or Twitter, or Wings – he did not answer the questions. Why do you keep blaming the BBC for Salmond not answering the questions? You are really looking for a scapegoat.

      • Which questions didn’t he answer Andrew? Please be more specific.

        However, Alex Salmond is not the YES camp. Your insistence on targeting him proves my point concerning media output, especially the BBC, who insisted on using the term “Alex Salmond’s independence campaign.” You too have fallen for the insidious drip, drip, drip of our state broadcaster’s propaganda. A broadcaster which should serve all of us who pay a license fee, whether pro or anti independence.

        As for unanswered questions, the media made little or no attempt to scrutinise the NO camp’s assertions as forensically as they pursued the YES camp, resorting to omitting positive YES stories on occasion. This isn’t “looking for a scapegoat” Andrew, but a real concern at how our media operates in our so-called democracy.

        My brother used a few telling phrases during our discussion. Risks and uncertainty were two which cropped up repeatedly. He claimed the SNP (not YES, you will note) hadn’t allayed his fears. I asked him which fears hadn’t been addressed, and he repeated every scare story which had featured on Reporting Scotland and in the tabloids. This was the reason I printed out articles from various on-line sites for him beforehand, to no avail.

        No mention was made of any benefits independence would bring. His “fears” were a concoction of NO propaganda. If he had tuned in to a Reporting Scotland episode, or read a newspaper article with positive stories regarding independence, would it have been such a bad thing? I believe my brother leaned towards a NO vote anyway, in the mistaken belief it was the safest option. The negative media stories gave him a sort of permission to vote that way, hence his reluctance to engage with any counter evidence which may have intruded on this mindset.

        Sadly, his own children will grow up to be confronted with the same choices he and other Scots have faced for generations. Make the best of a bad job, (if they can find any) or emigrate.

        As this article displays, I don’t envy them their future if they choose the former.

      • We did not get answers on Currency – Plan B
        Would plan B involve a new currency, tagging onto rUK’s currency, joining the Euro?
        We did not get answers on expected terms for EU membership
        We did not get told if there would be a referendum after terms agreed.

        You complain about the ‘media’ saying it was SNP’s campaign – that was proved correct since the Greens in their submission to the Smith Commission have distanced themselves from a number of the key SNP attributes of the campaign. You seem to be blind to these realities.

        And Jim Sillars and Tommy Sheridan were never on board with some of the SNP attributes – even during the campaign – Jim Sillars for example said the keeping the pound was just a stepping stone to our own currency – but yet you except us not to question the SNP claim that there was no need for anything but Plan A

        You complain about failure to question NO assertions – what do you mean – what questions do you have on the No campaign’s plans for currency, EU membership, NATO, UK single market for financial services, plans for Scotland’s defense? Details on these things are all 1000% clearer than Yes plans – so how can you fault your brother for being concerned about risks and uncertainties.

        Your problem is that you only see things from your side – so if someone else sees it differently then you say they are scared, bullied, etc – you try to make people feel small for their thoughts – in my book that is bullying – which is a core aspect of Nationalism. Scots are not as stupid as you like to make out – they weigh up the pros and cons and they make educated decision – so please show some respect. Do you ever hear No politicians bullying / disparaging the intellect of Yes voters?

        The following is not a key point to me but it is a counter to what you have said and I suspect it has never occurred to you – Sadly, if you have children I suspect they will grow up with the nationalist politics of division and blame – they will grow up with a huge chip on their shoulders – everything in life that goes wrong will be the fault of Westminster – and so they will wonder what is the point of trying in life.

      • What a rant Andrew. Calm down man.

        “Plan B”, as it was dubbed by the NO camp was to use the pound anyway. This was repeated time and again. It couldn’t have been answered any more clearly.

        The EU would have treated Scotland’s entry as an internal matter, as admitted by the new president. A position conveniently ignored by the unionist media.

        The British establishment hid behind a mantra of “no pre-negotiation”, leaving much unanswered, all the while complaining of unanswered questions. An approach which typifies their dishonesty. A group which denied Scots a Devo-Max option until defeat stared them in the face. Who then cobbled together a desperate move, in breach of the Edinburgh Agreement, which they are now reneging on. A desperate pledge with no substance or detail, free of any media scrutiny.

        My brother admitted his fears stemmed from stories he had seen on television or read in the unionist press. His term, not mine. I am sure many voted NO for other reasons, but the media campaign was clear. The wheels of the unionist wagon fell off during the last two weeks of the campaign and the media rushed in to pick it up and help it over the line.

        Scotland’s current position is the fault of Westminster Andrew. They hold the power and the purse strings. If the cap fits, so to speak.

        It is also to blame for the divisions which wrack these islands. You can blinker yourself from that truth as much as you like, but it’s not just Scots who are dissatisfied with that establishment.

        I voted YES for a fair and inclusive Scotland where everyone is given the chance to exist in a manner and suited to the citizens of a 21st century country. The sort of life my friends in Europe have experienced for generations.

        Certainly not the sort of state you support, with an ever widening gulf between those at the top and bottom of our increasingly fractured society, governed by an establishment dragging this country backwards rather than forwards.

        Finally, given the tone of your various comments here, I would suggest it is you who needs to shake the chips off your shoulders and attempt to engage in broader terms when viewing Scotland’s future. Your rabid anti-SNP stance reflects our London based media’s approach to a party which is increasing it’s support in spite of it all.

        Try judging people by their actions Andrew, and take a good hard look at your own side, inflicting their antiquated divide and rule agenda on anyone who challenges their self serving life style.

      • Andrew, you obviously weren’t paying attention. “Plan B”, as your side chooses to call it, was to be using the pound, out with a currency union. This option was stated time and again, and does constitute a clear answer, whether you agree or not.

        EU membership would be negotiated as an internal process, as stated by the new European president. How you can expect answers beforehand regarding future negotiations I will leave you to explain.

        Meanwhile, your own side hid behind a mantra of “no pre-negotiation”, leaving much unanswered which could be answered. Yet they complained incessantly of unanswered questions. A deceitful and dishonest approach which typifies their approach time and again. They failed to engage on any level other than scaremongering. A fact Blair McDougall seems shamelessly proud of. My sister in law, who works in a government department, along with her colleagues, were given internal circulars warning them a YES vote would endanger their future prospects. This was nothing less than state sponsored blackmail and like all of the unionist material, an effort to bully and cow people into voting NO.

        It was my brother who brought up fears, which he admitted stemmed from media sources, not me. He and others were influenced by a wholly negative press. Your assertion that I try to make people feel small is laughable. Indeed, as I stated earlier, his decision was entirely his to make, but he made it based on a NO campaign of staggering dishonesty.

        I never suggested Scots are stupid. Why do NO supporters insist on misrepresenting YES campaigners’ views? Read what is there please Andrew, not what you perceive to be there.

        The YES camp are indeed made up of disparate groups and individuals, and they do disagree on detail. What they do have in common though is a goal of an independent Scotland, fully empowered, able to care properly for the citizens of this country. They still share that goal, in stark contrast to the tawdry behaviour of your better together partners recently.

        The core nationalism you criticise has nothing to do with the desire of many Scots to run their own affairs. Would you aim the same accusation in the direction of a Norwegian or a New Zealander for example? Why is Scottish nationalism, an inclusive and aspirational goal, viewed as something other by you? Why is British nationalism acceptable?

        The most divisive establishment in these islands is Westminster. To be free of it’s malign influence and find a better, more equable way is the exact opposite of bullying Andrew. You obviously fail to see this. Are you happy with London’s past and present rule? Do you consider the present Scottish government a success?

        Westminster holds the power and the money Andrew, and has done for generations. They are to blame for our present condition. If the cap fits, they deserve to wear it.

        Maybe you should try to dislodge your own anti-SNP chip and take a clear look at Scotland’s future in this dysfunctional union.

  4. If UKIP holds the reigns of power in Westminster, Scotland will be in a lot of trouble.
    DevoMax – no more and that will just be the start of it.

    Anyone know where I can get some “Don’t Blame me – I voted YES” T-shirts.

    • Let’s get this thing in perspective.

      There is NO chance UKIP will gain anything like enough seats to form a Government at WM, or even enough to form a coalition. These current votes are PROTEST votes against the existing set up; as Farage says to rid us of “college kids” who have never had a real job governing us. The old diehard Tories will return to the Tory Party fold at GE 2015 after Cameron et al have spread a few lies and faux promises about a Euro Referendum and Tory ‘support’ for leaving Europe unless its ridiculous conditions for staying are met.

      Labour are more likely to be hardest hit by UKIP. Because many ex LAB, LIBDUMs all over England look likely to continue to support UKIP at GE2015 which means Labour are now VERY unlikely to win power at WM with or without a coalition. And that is good for Scotland because the Tories are much more inclined to serve up DevoMax or something near to it. Labour’s proposals are nonsense.

      The vibes are also good for Scotland and YES supporting parties which if present trends continue should now be able to replace Labour in a large number of seats. And we must keep the pressure on Labour by every means possible to keep them in the public eye as pariahs who sold out and are still selling out Scotland.

      • The old diehard Tories will return to the Tory Party fold at GE 2015 after Cameron et al have spread a few lies and faux promises about a Euro Referendum and Tory ‘support’ for leaving Europe unless its ridiculous conditions for staying are met.

        Are you saying there will not be a referendum on the British state leaving the EU after the general election?

      • Muttley, if there’s ever a referendum on the UK leaving or staying in the EU, I’ll apply for an A*****l season ticket. As a die-hard Spurs fan, I’d rather swallow a bottle of cyanide.

      • Reply to Muttley 79.
        No. I think if Tories win Cameron will hold an in/out referendum. But having got the diehards back by using false promises et al he and the Government will then backtrack like they all do and decide it “is in the best interests of the UK to remain in Europe ” even if Tory demands are not met.

      • Some of the UKIP voters are protest, but there is also a danger of underestimating the support they are gaining from the disaffected, fed a diet of Daily Fail myths that th country is overrun with immigrants taking everything that decent Brits are entitled to. There is also a very healthy violent right wing in the BNP, Britain First, EDL and football casual culture feeding into this. I’m concerned they will put candidates up here on the back of the No vote, for the GE. They may well just split the unionist vote, but I’m concerned they will be up here at all – they are toxic, as are their followers.

    • Just keep wearing your YES badge to show people that your were not one of the ones who have exiled the brilliant youth of Scotland to work elsewhere with better prospects.

      • Indeed, we all wear our YES badges and it’s great to see others do too. When, I’d like to say if, our young folk leave Scotland, another reason may well be to flee a more extreme right wing westminster administration, who will destroy Scotland. Very sad prospect.

  5. England needs a commonweal. The one part of all this that stands out for me is that nearly 50% of the electorate did not vote – that needs to change & fast.

    • I couldn’t agree with you more. And I would like to be able to take a pride in my country (England) without aligning myself with scum like UKIP. Meanwhile, yesterday the Green Party stuck a flyer through my door and I realised that I was far more in tune with their policies than Labour’s, after over 30 years of being a Labour voter.

      • Like you, I am English, but I do take pride in my country. Mind you, I make sure I don’t align myself with any political party or faction.

  6. In the photo, it looks like Vladimir Putin is looming behind Carswell and Farage, and tickling both their fancies. Prophetic?

  7. Excellent article although in fairness I don’t see “People who do not have HIV, to be frank. That’s a good start” equates to homophobia. Hiv is a disease that doesn’t care what your sexual preference is.

    • That’s what I was thinking. It’s important to remember that HIV/AIDS can be caught without having any kind of sex, and that some people are being born HIV-positive.

  8. I’m afraid it’s a slightly off-topic comment, but you have been addressing the need for a new media in and for Scotland:

    http://nosuchthingasthemarket.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/the-future-of-music-in-scotland/

  9. Did you say I told you so? or was it me?

  10. This is pathetic… we should be encouraging the southern voter to be voting for Ukip in their droves… we need the true Englander to swing behind this warped right wing party… as if we don’t then it will be years more of treacle fudge…or name calling like the above… and eventually when the penny drops with all those “”proud Scots… but…”” brigade… they will perhaps do more than regret their adherence to unionism… though this is as fanciful as labour having any policy other than looking after their own financial interests…
    Genuinely… what hope has a patriotic Englishman got?… they have been told by the authoritative voice of the bbc that the EU is a parcel of rogues determined to turn them into republican internationalists via Human Rights legislation… where the EU is a financial disaster… waiting to rob them blind… with Ukip the serious contender to remove this threat as against labour who caused the economic melt down & have ignored any reference to EU membership… or the tories who are elitist snobs only interested in their shareholders… and may do something … or may not.. do something about the EU… and as for the alternatives….. never will they hold power….
    so… encourage this great swelling of English nationalism… as its one more iron in the forge of Scottish. Independence..

  11. If Nigel Farage gets his way and becomes Minister for Europe and the Tories have their promised referendum on Europe and the great preponderance of the population in the xenophobic south of England all vote to get out, we can kiss good-bye to all the companies who have invested in Scotland and the rest of the UK just to enable them to trade with Europe. They will remove themselves from us and transfer their factories/offices./organisations in Britain to France, Germany, Holland or any other advanced industrial country on the continent. What have the NO voters let us in for? Will we be the new fascists that hurl their £s around in wheelbarrows for a loaf of bread and declare war on Europe? Will the Yanks jump in and help us then? Maybe we could nuke Europe. We’ve got Trident.

    • When I read that bit, Farage and his minister for Europe ambition, one thing springs to mind, if they vote us out of Europe, why the heck would they need a minister for Europe, or is that the point? 🙂

  12. This is democracy in action. I don’t support UKIP but that is the party that the electors of Clacton voted for and I respect their choice. I think most of you would rather live in a society where your world view is imposed on the rest of the population. A People’s Republic of Scotland ?

  13. Farage has a huge problem now.

    How is he going to manage and control a party that will will have right, far right, left and liberals voting for him.

    He is going to find it impossible to introduce policies that keep everybody happy.

    He uses examples of immigration, welfare and the deficit and the EU will keep UKIP together.

    So how now does he tackle these problems ?

    What left, right, far right and liberal tax and spend policies do you use ?

    What left, right, far right and liberal immigration policies do you use ?

    What left, right, far right and liberal welfare policies do you use ?

    It is a protest vote a mainly conservative one and when it comes to the crunch the left and the liberals will be side lined and thus you will split again.

    Or the left and the liberals will run back to their parties with their tales between their legs. How will Nigel stop them from doing that ?

    There are very few examples in history when the left, right, far right and liberals have stood under one political party. When they do it normally ends up with a monarch getting his head cut off or millions of immigrants getting burned on stakes or gassed.

    The only peaceful example I can find is the tea party in the USA.The UKIP surge is a blue print of the Tea Party in America it is identical. Of course within 3 years this great revolution in America they no longer exist they crawled back to the far right of the Reublican party where they belonged in the first place.

    The reason for this demise is that they couldn’t keep together the right, far right, left and liberals who flocked to them in 2009. No matter how much money was flung at it they couldn’t stop it from splitting and stop the left and liberals going back to their old political homes.

    Within 2 years, By October 2011, according to Time magazine, the Occupy Wall Street movement was twice as popular as the Tea Party movement. Indeed, 65 percent of those polled viewed the Tea Party as having a negative or harmful effect on American politics.

    Between fall 2011 and spring 2012, support for the Tea Party among young adults plunged from 51% to less than 30%.

    Far from being an independent movement of swing voters, like those of Ross Perot’s Reform Party in 1992, the Tea Party always represented a segment of the Republican Party base, where it now finds its present home.

    So can Farage now save UKIP from eating itself. The billions thrown at in America couldn’t and in a prime stomping ground for the right. Farage has niether and probabaly recognises he can’t which is why he stepping down as leader before the inevitable happens.

    The far right will be hoping that he can, as it fools both liberals and lefties to vote for it to get a foothold in British politics. Can they do it before the mask of the far right slips and the liberals and the lefties leave it in their thousands in exactly the same way to what happened in America.

    The clock is ticking and Farage will no doubt pull out the bags of tricks of that of the Lib Dems. He’ll promise the left and the liberals the earth knowing full well he’ll never get a chance to implement them.

    Unless of course he gets in by a hung parliament and then just like the tea party and Lib Dems before them when they won their first seats and power. All be revealed and their masks have been ripped off. We’ll soon see what UKIP is about like the America public did and left them in their millions. The bag of tricks will vanish like a fart in the wind and their far right voting and policies will be as clear as day. A day this country will live to regret just ask America.

    Then UKIP will disappear like their bags of tricks before them and float like a fart in the wind leaving a stench so putrid and ghastly behind them that the voters will spew at the very sight of them. Leaving them to crawl back to the far right where they came from.

    • It’s also time for the SNP to hold a press conference and state clearly.

      a) Any change to the human right’s act

      b) If the UK vote to leave the EU

      Then it automatically produces another referendum.

      • There is no automatic right to another referendum. The last one was valid because it was agreed between the UK and Scottish governments. I can’t see any UK government agreeing to another referendum for at least 15 years

  14. if the SNP put it in their manifesto and the SNP win their is nothing any UK government can do about it.

    • An illegal referendum won’t hold up in the courts.

      • Well just let’s see what happens in Catalonia after its ‘illegal’ Referendum. If Spain tries to ignore a YES to Indy result, A UDI would cause utter chaos, and not only in Spain.

        And Scotland could do the same thing. Courts are man made entities.

      • It won’t be illegal. It will be the soverign will of the Scottish people if there was a mandate for it.

        There’s nothing the UK government can do about as Scotland is a country. That’s why the UK government couldn’t do anything about it last time.

  15. Ukip: human ugliness personified. But we are not immune. 140,000 uglies voted in Scotland for these pond dwellers. Remember the loyalist scum of Sept. 19th in George Sq. and realise that they dwell amongst us. Let us not be complacent. ..we must not allow the complicit BBC to create the agenda here of Ukip as a viable alternative to anybody. ..which they have successfully done in England. We must ensure that the SG pressurises the State propagandist into giving the SNP their rightful place in the political race for the 2015 GE. Anything less would be shameful and politically fatal.

  16. Interesting that the only way Spain can stop Catalonia voting for indy is to advise Barcelona will not be allowed to play in La Liga. That will swing some votes too…

  17. Good Article – but as a green I think we need a much broader resistance to UKIP than a radical leftist one.

    UKIP are the most anti-green party in the UK. They do not believe that man made carbon induced global warming exists and they also want nuclear proliferation ( was it four more nuclear subs for the UK?). They want a return to coal fired power stations. Not only are they anti intellectual on the ideological front, they are in denial about hard science.

    Anyone who has a real interest in safeguarding a liveable environment for future generations ought to be allying themselves against UKIP – left and right. I would not want to live in a right wing society but I do think greens suffer from a lack of imagination and true futurist thinking when they can only think of growth economics as allied to physical consumption of non renewable resources. The left, including myself, cannot be guilty of a kind of arrogance in thinking that only they can own the future. In an issue such as this – it cannot be the left or bust.

    So Yes need to ally themselves as the radical left against UKIP, but they also need to seek out alliances from previous No voters and those on the right who have some worries about the environment to broaden this out. More support from rural Scotland is vital. UKIP must be squeezed out of Scotland altogether where it will be easier to do it and the Scots could forge the way in having the first true cross party consensus on the larger green issues.

    With our smaller population and larger land mass and coastline we are well placed to try to excel at the cutting edge of new renewables technology. If we can do this, and take the large majority of the population with us on it, then UKIP will be seen by many in England as the backward and dangerous irrelevance it is, hopefully.

    • Hi Fiona – I couldn’t agree more. Bella is totally committed to a green agenda, that’s why we’ve committed to a new editorial team covering ‘Ecology’ which we see as going beyond environmentalism.

      I see left and green as being part of the same struggle against exploitation. Thanks for your comment.

  18. My perspective on the effect of the Scottish Independence referendum on much of English opinion is not that the “No” result made people more UKIP/separatist. It was the strength (albeit minority) of the “Yes”. A lot of English seem to resent how many Sottish residents want independence.
    Just to be clear, this is not my opinion – I live in England and have close friends in Scotland on both sides of the Scottish Independence referendum debate. I took a close but neutral interest.

  19. I noticed on the BBC web site that in his piece on UKIP, Mr Robinson drew parallels between Farage’s rise and Salmond’s. Not good to see he is still able to continue spouting his quasi-official drivel.

    • On that point a agree with Mr Robinson. They are like two peas from the same pod. Like Twin brothers separated at birth. Their logic and theme have a lot in common. Some of their policies are slightly different.

      • Are you a bitter Labour supporter, Andrew?

      • Let me get this right – are you saying there is no difference between a movement campaigning for a fairer, outward-looking and pro-European Scotland and one which is anti-immigrant, anti-Europe, anti – gay, anti-welfare and essentially Little Englander? It’s not just Nick who has drawn this parallell, it is casually dropped into articles in the so-called ‘responsible’ and ‘liberal’ press who should know better.

        On a similar theme, I had to listen recently to a particularly vitriolic No voter telling someone that a Yes vote would have led to a fascist state, and saying the indyref was reminiscent of Germany in the 1930s. This strikes me as just a slightly more extreme version of the ‘Farage = Salmond’ fallacy.

  20. Andrew Skea…your hatred of AS is typical of bitter Unionists who think everybody is a’nationalist’ but you.

    Your statement: ‘Do you ever hear No politicians bullying / disparaging the intellect of Yes voters’ says it all really….Remember Labour’s Johan Lamont describing Scots as ‘ Not genetically programmed to be able to make political decisions ‘? or that we were a ‘virus’ etc. etc.

    Or what about the ‘NO’ Labour inspired ‘If you don’t know just vote no’ leaflet..I’m sure you do. Never was a more despicable and arrogant message sent out to an electorate than this.

    In your tiny and limited mind ‘Yes’ Campaigners were divided because they all had a different vision of an Independent Scotland. Well it’s a shame that you had not perceived that the ‘YES’ campaign fully acknowledged its differences but accepted the issue was INDEPENDENCE before ideology. Unlike the Unionists, who were just trying to save their jobs.

    How else can you explain Johan Lamont’s admission that she would rather live in a poorer Scotland than an Independent one? Labour, Tories and Lib Dems in bed forever for the sake of the wonderful’Union’.

    You obviously never lived as an adult through the post referendum 1979 Scotland. A country betrayed by Labour with the 40% rule and Unionist Labour MPs yet again backing Tories, who were then allowed to wipe out industrial Scotland. We have never fully recovered from that time: food banks; bedroom tax; poll tax; zero hours; welfare cuts; zero population growth. These things happened because of your wonderful Union…not because of a ‘chip on the shoulder’ but because of deliberate anti-Scottish tory greed and malevolence. Well enjoy your Union while you can…one day soon it will be a historical footnote.

  21. Nigel Farage’s comments on HIV may be more complicated than a homophobic attack and may go directly to an attack on African immigrants and perhaps Eastern Europeans: http://www.who.int/gho/hiv/hiv_013.jpg?ua=1

  22. Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but it seems to me that is isn’t as obvious to most people as it is to me: Nigel Farage is a fascist and UKIP are a fascist party. They are progressing in the UK in exactly the same manner in which the NAZI party progressed in 1930s Germany. They are using a situation of economic instability to seduce people into an ideology of victim blaming, they promote the lie of the superiority of the white male, they work towards isolating their nation from the international community, they are viciously attacking civil rights, they are exploiting every loophole and every weakness of an already moribund democratic structure, they manipulate the media. There were people back in the 1930s who didn’t take Hitler seriously because he was an inane buffoon. There are plenty of people now who consider Farage an asinine clown. Do not be fooled! This man has the potential to destroy what little democracy is left in Britain and plunge Europe into war. He would happily introduce concentration camps. Don’t think it can’t happen again, don’t think it can’t happen here. It can happen, it will happen, unless we stop it, and, heaven help us, I do not know how.

Trackbacks

  1. UKIP is not their problem, it’s also ours | A Burdz Eye View
  2. From Clacton with Hate | – Bella Caledonia360 Haters | 360 Haters
  3. From Clacton with Hate – Awakened State

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